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	<title>Comments on: A Wizard Did It: Patching 3E to 4E Continuity</title>
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	<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity</link>
	<description>A blog for all fans of Dungeons &#38; Dragons.</description>
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		<title>By: Hymn Collections For The Week Of 10/10 &#171; The Spirits of Eden</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-76019</link>
		<dc:creator>Hymn Collections For The Week Of 10/10 &#171; The Spirits of Eden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-76019</guid>
		<description>[...] do not despair! At J.D.&#8217;s D20 Source, he has a list of possible ways to convert your timeline from 3e to 4e. J.D. tackles the big issues and takes on all the lobbyists and Wall Street and he doesn&#8217;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] do not despair! At J.D.&#8217;s D20 Source, he has a list of possible ways to convert your timeline from 3e to 4e. J.D. tackles the big issues and takes on all the lobbyists and Wall Street and he doesn&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheyCallMeTim</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75854</link>
		<dc:creator>TheyCallMeTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 02:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75854</guid>
		<description>I like continuity, I really do. Having a group of players that&#039;s familiar with a setting and its history helps an awful lot with immersion in its history, especially if the actions of their previous characters have had or are having an effect on the world in later campaigns. 

In fact, I would argue that one of the best ways to explain changes is by attributing it to actions of the PC&#039;s, particularly if you&#039;ve played through a very long campaign in which the players were much invested in the past. It gives them a feeling that they actually have an effect on the world and the story, instead of just starting over fresh every time.

I favor 3.5 myself, but as an example, perhaps some or all eladrin were pulled from the heavens as the result of some failure on their part in the last campaign. Perhaps the Dragonborn were savages beyond some just broached frontier or even a highly developed nation in their own right, analagous to when westerners first arrived in China, where the party was exploring, making them viable PC&#039;s in the next campaign (by which time there&#039;s trade and travel back and forth between there and the former PCs&#039; homes). Monte Cooke ran the transfer from 2d to 3d in Ptolus, if I recall aright, with the disappearance of the Vallis Moon after his players foiled an attempt by the Galchutt to break their chains.  If Asmodeus really has won the Blood War in your campaign, it could be due to the previous players&#039; direct intervention, if the campaign went high enough level, or just the unintended consequence of someone the cheated, killed, or helped out.

4e works right out of the box as a new setting of course, making no explanations necessary, but if I ever do switch I think I&#039;ll do my best to keep the history intact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like continuity, I really do. Having a group of players that&#8217;s familiar with a setting and its history helps an awful lot with immersion in its history, especially if the actions of their previous characters have had or are having an effect on the world in later campaigns. </p>
<p>In fact, I would argue that one of the best ways to explain changes is by attributing it to actions of the PC&#8217;s, particularly if you&#8217;ve played through a very long campaign in which the players were much invested in the past. It gives them a feeling that they actually have an effect on the world and the story, instead of just starting over fresh every time.</p>
<p>I favor 3.5 myself, but as an example, perhaps some or all eladrin were pulled from the heavens as the result of some failure on their part in the last campaign. Perhaps the Dragonborn were savages beyond some just broached frontier or even a highly developed nation in their own right, analagous to when westerners first arrived in China, where the party was exploring, making them viable PC&#8217;s in the next campaign (by which time there&#8217;s trade and travel back and forth between there and the former PCs&#8217; homes). Monte Cooke ran the transfer from 2d to 3d in Ptolus, if I recall aright, with the disappearance of the Vallis Moon after his players foiled an attempt by the Galchutt to break their chains.  If Asmodeus really has won the Blood War in your campaign, it could be due to the previous players&#8217; direct intervention, if the campaign went high enough level, or just the unintended consequence of someone the cheated, killed, or helped out.</p>
<p>4e works right out of the box as a new setting of course, making no explanations necessary, but if I ever do switch I think I&#8217;ll do my best to keep the history intact.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeus</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75843</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75843</guid>
		<description>When it comes time for me to adapt D&amp;D 3.5 to 4, I&#039;m just going to add 0.5 to all dice rolls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes time for me to adapt D&amp;D 3.5 to 4, I&#8217;m just going to add 0.5 to all dice rolls.</p>
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		<title>By: Lurkinggherkin</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75821</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurkinggherkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75821</guid>
		<description>Hi Jonathan,

I understand that for those who tend to run shorter-term campaigns anyway, or whose long-term campaign has come to a natural end, starting over probably seems entirely logical, and continuity not so important.

However, as someone who migrated a long-running Greyhawk campaign from 1e to 3.5e, I entirely appreciate your desire to rationalise continuity.  I understand that new rules come along and you see advantages in them for your existing campaign, and you want to find a way to use them without junking it or having its flavour fundamentally altered in an abrupt way that doesn&#039;t make sense.

When you&#039;re faced with these continuity questions, I think you have to make a choice between taking on board the new setting flavour that comes with the new rules or else trying to preserve the existing flavour.  With my jump from 1e to 3.5e I chose the latter - but planar excursions are a not uncommon experience in our campaign and so I save a lot of the 3.5e material that seems a little &#039;outlandish&#039; in the context of Greyhawk&#039;s quasi-medieval setting to populate those adventures.

Lets&#039; also not forget that the Flanaess is only a small corner of Oerth, and that there are plenty of places &#039;off map&#039; for people to adventure in where things may be different, or where, say, dragonborn or eladrin refugees might arrive from.

As an aside - Dragonborn are a 3.x invention anyway, described in &#039;Races of the Dragon&#039; IIRC, although a little different to the way they are presented in 4e.  And there are a number of other draconic humanoids in 3.x, and a &#039;draconic&#039; template.

Anyway, good article.  As for myself, I&#039;m sticking with 3.5e for the foreseeable future, but I think some people may find this useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p>I understand that for those who tend to run shorter-term campaigns anyway, or whose long-term campaign has come to a natural end, starting over probably seems entirely logical, and continuity not so important.</p>
<p>However, as someone who migrated a long-running Greyhawk campaign from 1e to 3.5e, I entirely appreciate your desire to rationalise continuity.  I understand that new rules come along and you see advantages in them for your existing campaign, and you want to find a way to use them without junking it or having its flavour fundamentally altered in an abrupt way that doesn&#8217;t make sense.</p>
<p>When you&#8217;re faced with these continuity questions, I think you have to make a choice between taking on board the new setting flavour that comes with the new rules or else trying to preserve the existing flavour.  With my jump from 1e to 3.5e I chose the latter &#8211; but planar excursions are a not uncommon experience in our campaign and so I save a lot of the 3.5e material that seems a little &#8216;outlandish&#8217; in the context of Greyhawk&#8217;s quasi-medieval setting to populate those adventures.</p>
<p>Lets&#8217; also not forget that the Flanaess is only a small corner of Oerth, and that there are plenty of places &#8216;off map&#8217; for people to adventure in where things may be different, or where, say, dragonborn or eladrin refugees might arrive from.</p>
<p>As an aside &#8211; Dragonborn are a 3.x invention anyway, described in &#8216;Races of the Dragon&#8217; IIRC, although a little different to the way they are presented in 4e.  And there are a number of other draconic humanoids in 3.x, and a &#8216;draconic&#8217; template.</p>
<p>Anyway, good article.  As for myself, I&#8217;m sticking with 3.5e for the foreseeable future, but I think some people may find this useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ablefish</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75817</link>
		<dc:creator>Ablefish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75817</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny, but one of the things I really enjoyed during the year before, and the year after the release of 4E was the regular design and development articles on the Wizards site.  They walked the reader through a lot of the decisions that shaped 4E, and between those and the podcasts, I have a hard time with the suggestion that they &quot;showed up overnight with no explanation&quot;.

So you know what I&#039;m talking about, here&#039;s a link to one of those articles. 

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20081208

@Tyson  Our playgroup had been playing an Eberron campaign but we basically put that aside when 4E came out and we started a new collaborative setting (mostly because we all wanted to try DMing in order to really learn the new system)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny, but one of the things I really enjoyed during the year before, and the year after the release of 4E was the regular design and development articles on the Wizards site.  They walked the reader through a lot of the decisions that shaped 4E, and between those and the podcasts, I have a hard time with the suggestion that they &#8220;showed up overnight with no explanation&#8221;.</p>
<p>So you know what I&#8217;m talking about, here&#8217;s a link to one of those articles. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20081208" rel="nofollow">http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20081208</a></p>
<p>@Tyson  Our playgroup had been playing an Eberron campaign but we basically put that aside when 4E came out and we started a new collaborative setting (mostly because we all wanted to try DMing in order to really learn the new system)</p>
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		<title>By: Tyson J. Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75802</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson J. Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75802</guid>
		<description>Both @Wyatt and @rantmo make good points, a good old cataclysm (or god death) tends to hand wave everything, or even just saying the two aren&#039;t related get over it.

Really I must pose one question in that did people do this for the change from 2edition to 3rd?  Try to make everything fit together?  Again they are almost two different games.

I really liked your point on the â€œold magicâ€ is a misconception held by commoners.  In the event of a cataclysm or something of that nature and all magic is lost it would would take about three generations for all of the knowledge to be lost.  And your thoughts on the survival of the fittest being an explanation for the monsters is quite thoughtful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both @Wyatt and @rantmo make good points, a good old cataclysm (or god death) tends to hand wave everything, or even just saying the two aren&#8217;t related get over it.</p>
<p>Really I must pose one question in that did people do this for the change from 2edition to 3rd?  Try to make everything fit together?  Again they are almost two different games.</p>
<p>I really liked your point on the â€œold magicâ€ is a misconception held by commoners.  In the event of a cataclysm or something of that nature and all magic is lost it would would take about three generations for all of the knowledge to be lost.  And your thoughts on the survival of the fittest being an explanation for the monsters is quite thoughtful.</p>
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		<title>By: Randolpho</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75801</link>
		<dc:creator>Randolpho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75801</guid>
		<description>I agree with rantmo:

Continuity is *highly* overrated. It&#039;s a game. It&#039;s fun. Don&#039;t sweat the details unless they&#039;re important to the game at hand -- and even then, the details should be setting related, not *rules* related.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with rantmo:</p>
<p>Continuity is *highly* overrated. It&#8217;s a game. It&#8217;s fun. Don&#8217;t sweat the details unless they&#8217;re important to the game at hand &#8212; and even then, the details should be setting related, not *rules* related.</p>
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		<title>By: rantmo</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75795</link>
		<dc:creator>rantmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75795</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d take it even farther than Wyatt, 4e is more than just a reboot, it&#039;s a wholly new setting, and doesn&#039;t need a continuity explanation. That would be like asking why Krynn was now called Athas and was out of water without any explanation, the two just plain aren&#039;t related. 

I think if one were to update the old Greyhawk-ish setting, the easiest was to handle it would be somewhat similar to what WotC did with Forgotten Realms, move it all forward a significant chunk of time and put a serious event occur in the interim. I myself always like having a war of the gods, that&#039;s such an effective trope and isn&#039;t too terribly clichÃ©d.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d take it even farther than Wyatt, 4e is more than just a reboot, it&#8217;s a wholly new setting, and doesn&#8217;t need a continuity explanation. That would be like asking why Krynn was now called Athas and was out of water without any explanation, the two just plain aren&#8217;t related. </p>
<p>I think if one were to update the old Greyhawk-ish setting, the easiest was to handle it would be somewhat similar to what WotC did with Forgotten Realms, move it all forward a significant chunk of time and put a serious event occur in the interim. I myself always like having a war of the gods, that&#8217;s such an effective trope and isn&#8217;t too terribly clichÃ©d.</p>
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		<title>By: Wyatt</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2009/10/a-wizard-did-it-patching-3e-to-4e-continuity/comment-page-1#comment-75792</link>
		<dc:creator>Wyatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d20source.com/?p=1280#comment-75792</guid>
		<description>4e&#039;s generic setting (Points of Light) is basically a reboot of the continuity, picking whatever old stuff it likes but basically starting over new. Wizard&#039;s were in obligation of offering some form of nonsensical explanation for converting your old 3.x storylines to 4e, but I&#039;m more partial to &quot;you might as well start over.&quot;

Every other setting so far has included explanations on all the new stuff.

In my own campaign setting I make vague allusions to the 3e to 4e conversion by stating that there used to be a world before the present with all the 3.x trappings such as reality-collapsing 9th and epic level spells, Pun Puns and other game breakers and things like that, but that they were destroyed in a cataclysm after the fabric of reality essentially grew very sick of them. 

So I guess good old cataclysms just work well for this kind of thing, like our friend the Spellplague.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4e&#8217;s generic setting (Points of Light) is basically a reboot of the continuity, picking whatever old stuff it likes but basically starting over new. Wizard&#8217;s were in obligation of offering some form of nonsensical explanation for converting your old 3.x storylines to 4e, but I&#8217;m more partial to &#8220;you might as well start over.&#8221;</p>
<p>Every other setting so far has included explanations on all the new stuff.</p>
<p>In my own campaign setting I make vague allusions to the 3e to 4e conversion by stating that there used to be a world before the present with all the 3.x trappings such as reality-collapsing 9th and epic level spells, Pun Puns and other game breakers and things like that, but that they were destroyed in a cataclysm after the fabric of reality essentially grew very sick of them. </p>
<p>So I guess good old cataclysms just work well for this kind of thing, like our friend the Spellplague.</p>
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