As another has pointed out, to make 4E profitable, they had to make it incompatible with 3.5E, lest all of the previous manuals, guides, etc. could be easily transported over, not giving them a chance to go back and do the whole thing over again … it’s like a reboot of a series, where you can revisit the same story lines by saying “Well this is the first time through as far as the characters know.”

I like some aspects of 4E, like the way they compressed the skills down, and that non-casters now have limited resources just like casters do. In the end, 3.5E had a kind of internal consistency, it was more of a game system with story elements tacked on.

Overall, the epic scale that 3.5E offers is better for me, as whenever I read through my 4E manuals, I feel like someone looked at the 7-13 level range, and then stretched it out to 30 levels. Everything feels so limited and small.

WOTC got arrogant and went too far, indulging in their hobby horses and imposing personal design ideologies under a banner they don’t deserve. And it’s a name they’ve now tarnished. History won’t judge this “edition” kindly.

What has changed?

Even before 3/3.5 I realized the game was getting too stat-block heavy. Im beginning to think Id be happier going back to 1e or ad&d – much easier to run as a dm (prob more so than 3.5 even). So thats probably what i will do. Im going to go with hackmaster, castles and crusades or a freeware 1e clone like labyrinth lord with my own home-brew house rules. Sure the earlier rule systems had holes, but the dm had far more control because the rules were loose/simplified. Ill also be able to use my own long-term house rules for 1e/adnd. Ill also be able to use a ton of old 1e material that most new gamers havent even seen or been through.

Ill survive. Theres always warcraft lol if i cant get a group together.

4.0 has essentially nothing in common with previous Dungeons and Dragons games, that could not equally be said for WFRP, GURPS, or half a dozen other RPGs.

If they’d just given the game an original name, rather than glue Dungeons and Dragons words onto non-Dungeons and Dragons concepts (eg, the “Sleep” spell of DnD4.0 doesn’t put things to sleep, among dozens of examples), much of the arguments would be meaningless.

After all, nobody says “WFRP sucks, since the developers push well-painted miniatres, and you didn’t see that in Tunnels and Trolls” (incidentally, another RPG that has more in common with D&D than 4.0).

I can intellectually appreciate the dilemma that a company like Hasbro must face as time goes on and the inevitabilities of market saturation begin to erode revenues and profits. Since Hasbro exists mainly to increase value for its shareholders there should be no surprise that it would use “planned obsolescence” to cyclically restore revenue streams.

In theory, a new version of the rules is rolled out that “improves” the gaming experience for the customer. This has the beneficial side effect (for the company at least) of obsoleting the previous edition – and creating a new source of revenue – a whole new set of manuals, subscriptions, etc. No different from software, consumer electronics, cars, etc.

Unfortunately, there is a trade-off with this approach because the company risks alienating its existing customer base who have usually invested heavily in the previous edition and aren’t happy at all about having to learn a new system, pay for new rule books and so on.

I said I appreciate this on an intellectual level, but as a gamer, someone who just wants to enjoy a hobby, the financial woes of a vast conglomerate like Hasbro mean nothing to me. I just want to play a good game.

This is where a curious aspect of RPGs come into play – once you’ve got access to the core rules and are able to play a bit, you eventually develop the confidence and expertise to basically expand upon the rules & content yourself. You really don’t need to buy anything more after that (unless you’re feeling lazy a bit lazy, or maybe you need a bit of inspiration).

I started playing RPGs just about 30 years ago, when they were still relatively new. I mainly played using AD&D rules, but after the first few years, much of the “content” of our campaigns was self-developed, not purchased. House rules grew up around the AD&D rules, either to correct for TSR flaws, or to expand into areas that we were interested in. We all still look back on those gaming days fondly.

After about a 15 year hiatus, I’ve come back to RPGs and decided to try 3.5E. This is not necessarily because I think 3.5E is any better than 1E (I still have all my 1E books), but because I figured very few people would be playing 1E at this point.

I paid for the 3.5E core rules and a few supplements and have started a new group, but expect to, as I did in the past, develop much of my own content as time goes on.

Frankly, I probably could have just used the D20 SRD and spent very little. But laziness is a factor …

So basically, given that RPGs allow for so much freedom to create and modify, I don’t really see why anyone would bother complaining about this edition vs. that edition.

My big issue is that I have spent the better part of a small fortune on books, etc for 3.0 then 3.5, I just can’t fathom paying the same amount for 4e, especially when I can’t even get my players to learn a new system as simple as GURPS because of the work it entails.

SO, in short, I’m skipping 4e and will probably just move to VTM or something when I want to play something other than 3.5.

…There _are_ RPGs besides Dungeons and Dragons and its variants.