Comments on: Vow of Poverty, Revisited http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited A blog for all fans of Dungeons & Dragons. Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:00:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: OpticSeagull http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-143449 OpticSeagull Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:39:16 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-143449 I'm used to high powered campaigns where the items are at least +5's. Regardless... Seems like a predictable path is "out of sync" with the rest of the party, whether over or under-powered. I know what it's like playing with imbalanced characters, and on top of that, what's it like playing with non-lethal damage (lesser of two evils)? How's is it going to look when we split the items and then i take some useful stuff and "throw it in the trash". Silly. Which is why we're not going to do it. My main question is, is this feat any fun? As a druid (usually) i like having spells that are like a tool kit. Items are also tools. Closed doors? No thanks. THX for the warning, Kenshin. I'll find another way to boost wildshape i hope, and still role play a minimalist. I’m used to high powered campaigns where the items are at least +5′s. Regardless…
Seems like a predictable path is “out of sync” with the rest of the party, whether over or under-powered. I know what it’s like playing with imbalanced characters, and on top of that, what’s it like playing with non-lethal damage (lesser of two evils)?
How’s is it going to look when we split the items and then i take some useful stuff and “throw it in the trash”. Silly. Which is why we’re not going to do it.
My main question is, is this feat any fun? As a druid (usually) i like having spells that are like a tool kit. Items are also tools. Closed doors? No thanks. THX for the warning, Kenshin. I’ll find another way to boost wildshape i hope, and still role play a minimalist.

]]> By: Ironrage http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-142843 Ironrage Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:49:12 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-142843 Lorelei I really want to slap your DM across the face. You don't just attach the Saint template to your character. You have to EARN it, and you damn sure shouldn't have it at low levels. Lorelei I really want to slap your DM across the face. You don’t just attach the Saint template to your character. You have to EARN it, and you damn sure shouldn’t have it at low levels.

]]> By: ZedarFlight http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-105862 ZedarFlight Mon, 03 Jan 2011 23:17:55 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-105862 Am I the only one noticing that the rings and such drop off from one list to the next, because I'm pretty sure at level 10, 15 and 20 the 'ring of sustenance' effect is still active on the VoP character, but it seems to have disappeared in the itemized character. Am I the only one noticing that the rings and such drop off from one list to the next, because I’m pretty sure at level 10, 15 and 20 the ‘ring of sustenance’ effect is still active on the VoP character, but it seems to have disappeared in the itemized character.

]]> By: Lorelei http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-89395 Lorelei Sun, 25 Apr 2010 03:52:57 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-89395 I'm currently running a character using many things from the 3.5 world, much of which is from the book of exalted deeds. I am currently a cleric 1 / favored soul 1 / monk 4, although I'm a 9 HD character. I have attached the Saint and Half-Celestial templates to this character. The first feats i took were the Sacred vow, Vow of Nonviolence, and Vow of Peace. The vow of poverty has come in very handy in developing my character as a completely defensive character. The monk and saintly abilities have provided nice additions to my AC as well. Intuitive attack was an excellent choice for my attack rolls, which are all nonlethal. Holy Subdual allows bonus holy damage to be nonlethal as well, all of which is allowed by the vow of peace. The feat Sacred Healing from the Complete Divine book has become a much more effective method of healing the party. Currently, my AC is 51, and my saving throws are fort 17, ref 11, will 21. One i am able to take class levels again, I will take two levels of Paladin, whe the divine grace ability will provide a boost to my save of my cha modifier of 6. Once those two levels have been completed, I will become ever after an Apostle of Peace. If you are able to research the rules, you can find amazing things to do with your character. I’m currently running a character using many things from the 3.5 world, much of which is from the book of exalted deeds.
I am currently a cleric 1 / favored soul 1 / monk 4, although I’m a 9 HD character. I have attached the Saint and Half-Celestial templates to this character. The first feats i took were the Sacred vow, Vow of Nonviolence, and Vow of Peace. The vow of poverty has come in very handy in developing my character as a completely defensive character. The monk and saintly abilities have provided nice additions to my AC as well. Intuitive attack was an excellent choice for my attack rolls, which are all nonlethal. Holy Subdual allows bonus holy damage to be nonlethal as well, all of which is allowed by the vow of peace. The feat Sacred Healing from the Complete Divine book has become a much more effective method of healing the party. Currently, my AC is 51, and my saving throws are fort 17, ref 11, will 21. One i am able to take class levels again, I will take two levels of Paladin, whe the divine grace ability will provide a boost to my save of my cha modifier of 6. Once those two levels have been completed, I will become ever after an Apostle of Peace. If you are able to research the rules, you can find amazing things to do with your character.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-87645 Anonymous Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:35:14 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-87645 Karaskhan, you fail at reading. The VOP character still gets his share of the gold- he's required to donate it to charity. Also, VOP is a sucky feat, because most melee classes are shooting themselves in the foot for lack of a way to fly, and most spellcasting classes should be spending moolah on Force Multipliers like Metamagic Rods, not mostly useless boost to AC... at higher levels AC is worthless. The only class that VOP actually is a net benefit for is the Druid, and there are only a few more classes that are even halfway playable with VOP: Incarnates, Totemists, Binders, and maaaaaaaaaaaaybe Psions in a low power game Karaskhan, you fail at reading. The VOP character still gets his share of the gold- he’s required to donate it to charity.

Also, VOP is a sucky feat, because most melee classes are shooting themselves in the foot for lack of a way to fly, and most spellcasting classes should be spending moolah on Force Multipliers like Metamagic Rods, not mostly useless boost to AC… at higher levels AC is worthless.

The only class that VOP actually is a net benefit for is the Druid, and there are only a few more classes that are even halfway playable with VOP: Incarnates, Totemists, Binders, and maaaaaaaaaaaaybe Psions in a low power game

]]> By: Lamorake http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-81204 Lamorake Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:21:08 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-81204 VoP monk vs Monk with Monk's Belt? Well, you can take a few feats to make up for not having the Monk's Belt and the VoP covers more than the rest. I'd recommend these two feats at least: Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack. Taking those will boost damage significantly, and the VoP AC bonuses and Stat bumps are more than enough... not to mention Freedom of Movement and damage reduction. VoP monk vs Monk with Monk’s Belt? Well, you can take a few feats to make up for not having the Monk’s Belt and the VoP covers more than the rest. I’d recommend these two feats at least: Superior Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack. Taking those will boost damage significantly, and the VoP AC bonuses and Stat bumps are more than enough… not to mention Freedom of Movement and damage reduction.

]]> By: Baelzar http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-80740 Baelzar Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:39:42 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-80740 So I'm playing a character in a one-shot adventure next month. 3-4 days playing. We will be 15th level and have only 150k for magic items (50k short of the DMG table) and can use all 3.5 books published by WotC. You like VoP Monk over regular Monk? How does VoP make up for the Monk's Belt level adjustment? Any other suggestions for a character in this scenario? So I’m playing a character in a one-shot adventure next month. 3-4 days playing.

We will be 15th level and have only 150k for magic items (50k short of the DMG table) and can use all 3.5 books published by WotC.

You like VoP Monk over regular Monk? How does VoP make up for the Monk’s Belt level adjustment?

Any other suggestions for a character in this scenario?

]]> By: Kevin http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-79259 Kevin Sun, 13 Dec 2009 10:12:31 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-79259 I do not know what VoP you are looking at but it states in Exalted Deeds "To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes(usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties." So that I think states very clearly that you can use simple weapons and NO Armor. With that said I am very excited about VoP and most of the "problems" that people have with it sound like they stem from game balance issues with the Monk and Druid. I think people are overlooking the goal of the Vow which is to teach the character the path of true aestheticism and the benefits that come with that. The reason I like VoP so much is that it really brings out the Role Playing which is something that a lot of people seem to forget. I think the key to being a DM with a VoP character in the party is to make sure that they do stay in character. That they act exalted b/c that is main thing that must be done on this path. So watch the character closely and do not let them stray too far from it. Okay I have said enough on this for now... I do not know what VoP you are looking at but it states in Exalted Deeds
“To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking
stick. You may wear simple clothes(usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties.”

So that I think states very clearly that you can use simple weapons and NO Armor.

With that said I am very excited about VoP and most of the “problems” that people have with it sound like they stem from game balance issues with the Monk and Druid. I think people are overlooking the goal of the Vow which is to teach the character the path of true aestheticism and the benefits that come with that. The reason I like VoP so much is that it really brings out the Role Playing which is something that a lot of people seem to forget.

I think the key to being a DM with a VoP character in the party is to make sure that they do stay in character. That they act exalted b/c that is main thing that must be done on this path. So watch the character closely and do not let them stray too far from it.

Okay I have said enough on this for now…

]]> By: Robert turner http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-77431 Robert turner Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:05:35 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-77431 You guys should know VOP only gets rid of magical items and expensive spell components it does not prohibit you from acquiring or using any normal arms and armor. You guys should know VOP only gets rid of magical items and expensive spell components it does not prohibit you from acquiring or using any normal arms and armor.

]]> By: Robert http://www.d20source.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited/comment-page-1#comment-73385 Robert Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:33:46 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/12/vow-of-poverty-revisited#comment-73385 It is pretty clear that the VoP is broken for monks and druids. The argument that VoP gives apropriat bonuses for the gear that character has given up falls apart when you use it for characters that can not use heavy armor. At level 18 VoP gives you a +10 Armor bonus wich is fair and resonable if you are talking a paladin or a cleric. That would only represent a 25k gold item. When you apply that to a monk who can not wear armor that is bracers of AC 10 which is a 100k item. It is crazy when you look at the level 1 case. Ok a paladin gets the equivalent of his 50g chain shirt. The only way a monk will get a +4 armor bonus is with +4 bracers which is a 16k item. How many level 1 characters start with 16k in gear? In my game if you are playing a class that does not have proficiancy in heavy armor you start the armor bonus at +1 AC. It is still a 1,000 gp item at level 1 but then I also don't allow the feat to be taken by level 1 characters. It is pretty clear that the VoP is broken for monks and druids.

The argument that VoP gives apropriat bonuses for the gear that character has given up falls apart when you use it for characters that can not use heavy armor.

At level 18 VoP gives you a +10 Armor bonus wich is fair and resonable if you are talking a paladin or a cleric. That would only represent a 25k gold item. When you apply that to a monk who can not wear armor that is bracers of AC 10 which is a 100k item.

It is crazy when you look at the level 1 case. Ok a paladin gets the equivalent of his 50g chain shirt. The only way a monk will get a +4 armor bonus is with +4 bracers which is a 16k item.

How many level 1 characters start with 16k in gear?

In my game if you are playing a class that does not have proficiancy in heavy armor you start the armor bonus at +1 AC. It is still a 1,000 gp item at level 1 but then I also don’t allow the feat to be taken by level 1 characters.

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