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	<title>Comments on: Undead Are Our Friends</title>
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	<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends</link>
	<description>A must-read Dungeons &#38; Dragons blog for dungeon masters, D&#38;D players and game designers.</description>
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		<title>By: David Devine</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-91642</link>
		<dc:creator>David Devine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-91642</guid>
		<description>WRT the hordes of wraith / shadows / spectres ... I once discussed this at length with a person who wanted to now how to handle this situation as a DM ... he was running an Evil campaign, and his players had come up with this exact idea.

My wonder is, what prevents this from happening sans clever adventurers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WRT the hordes of wraith / shadows / spectres &#8230; I once discussed this at length with a person who wanted to now how to handle this situation as a DM &#8230; he was running an Evil campaign, and his players had come up with this exact idea.</p>
<p>My wonder is, what prevents this from happening sans clever adventurers?</p>
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		<title>By: True necromancer</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-29573</link>
		<dc:creator>True necromancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-29573</guid>
		<description>Leadership is a more practical route since cohorts are more reliable then free willed allies. (because yuo control their actions)
But again you would need your DM&#039;s permission to get an ally that spawns and you don&#039;t need his permission to do anything from the diplomacy route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leadership is a more practical route since cohorts are more reliable then free willed allies. (because yuo control their actions)<br />
But again you would need your DM&#8217;s permission to get an ally that spawns and you don&#8217;t need his permission to do anything from the diplomacy route.</p>
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		<title>By: True necromancer</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-29572</link>
		<dc:creator>True necromancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-29572</guid>
		<description>This is how you do it kids so pay attention. 
There is only truly one way to build unyielding hordes of undead that number in the thousands. 
You don&#039;t need a cleric cohort.
You only need two things.
create greater undead
command undead
and high ranks in diplomacy.

The process is simple. Create a shadow, wraith, or specter and cast command undead on them until it works. (at this point you can do this 6 times a day and they need to make a dc 15 will check so you ought be able to get&#039;em before they suck you dry)
At this point their attitude toward you will be &quot;friendly&quot; and will remain that way even after the spell ends unless you piss them off. (see charm person for details)


The next part is even easier.
Offer the newly created wraith, shadow, or specter your personal help in getting lots spawn established.
This will change it&#039;s attitude from friendly to helpful (make a diplomacy check with a newly applied circumstance modifier due to your benevolence)
This will entail a few days work.
Start small and help your buddy wraith/shadow/specter to establish himself firmly with five or more spawns. Next locate a cave of kobolds or gobins or something and cast wall of force on the entrance while your wraith/shadow/specter and company is inside.
This is a good way to start. 
any minions he controls are your allies.
This does not mean that they will die for you on a whim.
But it does mean that by the third or so such conclave you have built is ready, and you send out an invitation to war, you spectral army will be pretty much waiting in the wings.

Chances are an army of wraith/shadow/specter would be interested in a coordinated assault like that because a total town wipe out means lots and lots of spawn for all of them and that means yet bigger armies and larger conquests with you at the head.

Unfortunately, because you are merely an ally and not a spawn controller, your position as general is not assured. So they may rebel and stage a coup.
Also your DM may decide that these undead you helped to create are not interested in going to war for you at all to begin with. 
Well the answer is easy. Locate your original creation and cast control undead on him. That should give you about 15 minutes or so to get him to round up his armies and send word out to his troops to march. Next, teleport him and yourself away to ensure that he won&#039;t be able to catch his own spawn army. 

You really don&#039;t even need create undead to do this. You just need to meet a few wraith/shadow/specter&#039;s and cast command undead them. So this could start at a very low level. 
True necromancer is the best prestige class for this approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is how you do it kids so pay attention.<br />
There is only truly one way to build unyielding hordes of undead that number in the thousands.<br />
You don&#8217;t need a cleric cohort.<br />
You only need two things.<br />
create greater undead<br />
command undead<br />
and high ranks in diplomacy.</p>
<p>The process is simple. Create a shadow, wraith, or specter and cast command undead on them until it works. (at this point you can do this 6 times a day and they need to make a dc 15 will check so you ought be able to get&#8217;em before they suck you dry)<br />
At this point their attitude toward you will be &#8220;friendly&#8221; and will remain that way even after the spell ends unless you piss them off. (see charm person for details)</p>
<p>The next part is even easier.<br />
Offer the newly created wraith, shadow, or specter your personal help in getting lots spawn established.<br />
This will change it&#8217;s attitude from friendly to helpful (make a diplomacy check with a newly applied circumstance modifier due to your benevolence)<br />
This will entail a few days work.<br />
Start small and help your buddy wraith/shadow/specter to establish himself firmly with five or more spawns. Next locate a cave of kobolds or gobins or something and cast wall of force on the entrance while your wraith/shadow/specter and company is inside.<br />
This is a good way to start.<br />
any minions he controls are your allies.<br />
This does not mean that they will die for you on a whim.<br />
But it does mean that by the third or so such conclave you have built is ready, and you send out an invitation to war, you spectral army will be pretty much waiting in the wings.</p>
<p>Chances are an army of wraith/shadow/specter would be interested in a coordinated assault like that because a total town wipe out means lots and lots of spawn for all of them and that means yet bigger armies and larger conquests with you at the head.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, because you are merely an ally and not a spawn controller, your position as general is not assured. So they may rebel and stage a coup.<br />
Also your DM may decide that these undead you helped to create are not interested in going to war for you at all to begin with.<br />
Well the answer is easy. Locate your original creation and cast control undead on him. That should give you about 15 minutes or so to get him to round up his armies and send word out to his troops to march. Next, teleport him and yourself away to ensure that he won&#8217;t be able to catch his own spawn army. </p>
<p>You really don&#8217;t even need create undead to do this. You just need to meet a few wraith/shadow/specter&#8217;s and cast command undead them. So this could start at a very low level.<br />
True necromancer is the best prestige class for this approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommi</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-28820</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-28820</guid>
		<description>Combine with leadership and a cleric cohort for even more undead minions.

Also; shadows are plain deadly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Combine with leadership and a cleric cohort for even more undead minions.</p>
<p>Also; shadows are plain deadly.</p>
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		<title>By: Xanthus</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-27719</link>
		<dc:creator>Xanthus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-27719</guid>
		<description>Is there any good way to control or use the undead from Create or Greater create? I looked through Libris Mortis - but didn&#039;t see any additional tools for use there. I was stoked to play the Dread Necromancer class until I realized that I couldn&#039;t actualy USE any of the cooler minions I could create...kinda sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any good way to control or use the undead from Create or Greater create? I looked through Libris Mortis &#8211; but didn&#8217;t see any additional tools for use there. I was stoked to play the Dread Necromancer class until I realized that I couldn&#8217;t actualy USE any of the cooler minions I could create&#8230;kinda sucks.</p>
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		<title>By: ChattyDm</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-27372</link>
		<dc:creator>ChattyDm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-27372</guid>
		<description>Ahhhh, Libris Mortis!  This is such a cool sourcebook!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhhh, Libris Mortis!  This is such a cool sourcebook!</p>
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		<title>By: Doom Monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-26788</link>
		<dc:creator>Doom Monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 02:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-26788</guid>
		<description>read the libris mortis for more details. also the complete mage outlines the spellcaster idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>read the libris mortis for more details. also the complete mage outlines the spellcaster idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Drain</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-26243</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Drain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-26243</guid>
		<description>Excellent point, Zara. A drawback is that the more powerful spells take a while to cast, and they&#039;re expensive enough that you can&#039;t afford to waste one by having him suicide-attack to weaken the enemy. However, selective and cautious use can make this undead creation very feasible.

Also, I just realise I forgot to account for turn resistance, meaning you need to be slightly higher level to have as many undead. Still, the theory stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point, Zara. A drawback is that the more powerful spells take a while to cast, and they&#8217;re expensive enough that you can&#8217;t afford to waste one by having him suicide-attack to weaken the enemy. However, selective and cautious use can make this undead creation very feasible.</p>
<p>Also, I just realise I forgot to account for turn resistance, meaning you need to be slightly higher level to have as many undead. Still, the theory stands.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaratustra</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends/comment-page-1#comment-26140</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaratustra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/11/undead-are-our-friends#comment-26140</guid>
		<description>Also, if you can -create- undead cheaply but not -control- them, consider dropping them into the enemy field like bombs of terror.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, if you can -create- undead cheaply but not -control- them, consider dropping them into the enemy field like bombs of terror.</p>
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