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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Big Six&#8221; Magic Items: Big Folly</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly</link>
	<description>A must-read Dungeons &#38; Dragons blog for dungeon masters, D&#38;D players and game designers.</description>
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		<title>By: alaskan tarrasque</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-77768</link>
		<dc:creator>alaskan tarrasque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-77768</guid>
		<description>I play for most of the time and my GM isn&#039;t to generous with magic items i mean my characters at like 8 level(rogue) and her armor is mwk studded leather and her best weapon is either a +1 or mwk rapier so any magic weapon that i get is awsome to me. I do GM and when i do the players get equal amounts of weird and regular magic stuff because they can&#039;t usually go buy stuff unless they&#039;re in certain places so i usually handout the magic stuff to satisfy them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I play for most of the time and my GM isn&#8217;t to generous with magic items i mean my characters at like 8 level(rogue) and her armor is mwk studded leather and her best weapon is either a +1 or mwk rapier so any magic weapon that i get is awsome to me. I do GM and when i do the players get equal amounts of weird and regular magic stuff because they can&#8217;t usually go buy stuff unless they&#8217;re in certain places so i usually handout the magic stuff to satisfy them.</p>
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		<title>By: KasraKhan</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-49901</link>
		<dc:creator>KasraKhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 06:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-49901</guid>
		<description>I only use random encounters and treasures when my players want to play and I&#039;m not done with material.  The adventures usually is a stand alone dungeon, kind of like an anime filler.

I did once run a campaign with no magic items other than weapons and armor and a few minor rings, but I gave the PCs ECLs to balance it out.  I might try curbing the stat boosters to a max of +2, for example.

Additionally, I have found something out vitally important by playing various campaigns of various economic well-being.  Poor characters are not as affected in attack as in AC.  Rich characters have untouchable AC, especially at higher levels, but that too tremendous a difference in attack.  I find that higher AC battles are actually more enjoyable than damage-fests, as the outcome is easily determined for the damage-fests, but the luck of the roll matters more when AC rules supreme.

***NOTE
Cloak of Charisma does compete for Cloak of Resistance, but usually only for Paladins and Sorcerors.  For Paladins, the Cha boost goes to saves anyway, so its only a real decision for a Sorc.

Also, Nat Armor, Wisdom, and Con all take the same spot, as do some other useful necklaces, such as Immunity to disease and poison items. 
NOTE***

One solution I found to this &#039;dilemma&#039; is to add random skill boosts to the items.  It makes the characters think a little more, although they usually choose the stat-boosters anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only use random encounters and treasures when my players want to play and I&#8217;m not done with material.  The adventures usually is a stand alone dungeon, kind of like an anime filler.</p>
<p>I did once run a campaign with no magic items other than weapons and armor and a few minor rings, but I gave the PCs ECLs to balance it out.  I might try curbing the stat boosters to a max of +2, for example.</p>
<p>Additionally, I have found something out vitally important by playing various campaigns of various economic well-being.  Poor characters are not as affected in attack as in AC.  Rich characters have untouchable AC, especially at higher levels, but that too tremendous a difference in attack.  I find that higher AC battles are actually more enjoyable than damage-fests, as the outcome is easily determined for the damage-fests, but the luck of the roll matters more when AC rules supreme.</p>
<p>***NOTE<br />
Cloak of Charisma does compete for Cloak of Resistance, but usually only for Paladins and Sorcerors.  For Paladins, the Cha boost goes to saves anyway, so its only a real decision for a Sorc.</p>
<p>Also, Nat Armor, Wisdom, and Con all take the same spot, as do some other useful necklaces, such as Immunity to disease and poison items.<br />
NOTE***</p>
<p>One solution I found to this &#8216;dilemma&#8217; is to add random skill boosts to the items.  It makes the characters think a little more, although they usually choose the stat-boosters anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: epharian</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-45837</link>
		<dc:creator>epharian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 11:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-45837</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m currently running an odd mixed-magic game.  Magical weaponry and armor are considered common, but everything else is considered contraband.  As a result, the players are really short on everything else and have to take pains to hide anything else (and they are a bit under the average for their level).  Even more importantly, the wizards guild has been collecting magical items (and not releasing them back out) for thousands of years, meaning that while they will find an occasional item, generally what they do find will be weaker than what they&#039;ve already managed to acquire. 

The net effect is to encourage them to hang on to ANY and ALL magical items--even the unusual ones--that they find.  Of course, the paladin in the group is going to be more inclined to obey the legal requirements of turning things over to the guild (and pay taxes) and the like.  The rest of the party--not so much.  

The point is that I think randomly found magical items are a silly way to go, and I&#039;ve decided that it&#039;s a bad idea to place random stuff on monsters after a fight.  In fact, I&#039;m leaning further and further away from random encounters altogether, as it takes too much work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m currently running an odd mixed-magic game.  Magical weaponry and armor are considered common, but everything else is considered contraband.  As a result, the players are really short on everything else and have to take pains to hide anything else (and they are a bit under the average for their level).  Even more importantly, the wizards guild has been collecting magical items (and not releasing them back out) for thousands of years, meaning that while they will find an occasional item, generally what they do find will be weaker than what they&#8217;ve already managed to acquire. </p>
<p>The net effect is to encourage them to hang on to ANY and ALL magical items&#8211;even the unusual ones&#8211;that they find.  Of course, the paladin in the group is going to be more inclined to obey the legal requirements of turning things over to the guild (and pay taxes) and the like.  The rest of the party&#8211;not so much.  </p>
<p>The point is that I think randomly found magical items are a silly way to go, and I&#8217;ve decided that it&#8217;s a bad idea to place random stuff on monsters after a fight.  In fact, I&#8217;m leaning further and further away from random encounters altogether, as it takes too much work.</p>
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		<title>By: eruditus</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-26147</link>
		<dc:creator>eruditus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-26147</guid>
		<description>darkmantle reveals a lot of great ideas here.  I don&#039;t hand out magic items as treasure as much as plot hooks and things that drive story.  And they almost always have some sort of curse, cost or drawback.  The more powerful the item the more the players question whether they should use it and when they do it ALWYAS drives their own personal stories forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>darkmantle reveals a lot of great ideas here.  I don&#8217;t hand out magic items as treasure as much as plot hooks and things that drive story.  And they almost always have some sort of curse, cost or drawback.  The more powerful the item the more the players question whether they should use it and when they do it ALWYAS drives their own personal stories forward.</p>
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		<title>By: darkelement</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-23215</link>
		<dc:creator>darkelement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-23215</guid>
		<description>Besides the many other good points, running a more open-ended campaign where the characters decide their goals, at the least their immediate goals. Instead of an unusual magic item like the Helm of Underwater Action being useful only on a rare occasion when the DM deigns to lead them by the nose to a water-based &#039;adventure&#039; (usually a site-based dungeon), and will be left in the cold if the plot wagon takes them to whatever terrain the DM prefers.

However, if the characters don&#039;t have the DM jerking them around on a short leash (sadly, this is more often the case than not), they can get a lot of mileage out of specialized items. If they find a pair of Apparati of Kwalish, instead of cursing their luck for not finding a statboost item, they can start exploring shipwrecks for sunken treasure (maybe a statboost item or two), search for treasure or plot-relevant items in sunken ruins, or find all kinds of adventure on their own there.

It&#039;s funny; the comic &quot;Knights of the Dinner Table&quot; is a lampoon of roleplaying games, but I always genuinely admired the style of the DM character; he generally let the players do as they please, parlaying the consequences of their actions into adventure rather than simply slapping them down and shoving them down a linear path. An excellent example is one storyline where, after hunting down a monk to interrogate and rob him, they found a minor artifact with the power to repair ships, sails and rigging. The player who ended up with it planned to sell it, but with some nudging by the DM upon reaching a port town, he realized he could parlay the artifact into a profitable enterprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides the many other good points, running a more open-ended campaign where the characters decide their goals, at the least their immediate goals. Instead of an unusual magic item like the Helm of Underwater Action being useful only on a rare occasion when the DM deigns to lead them by the nose to a water-based &#8216;adventure&#8217; (usually a site-based dungeon), and will be left in the cold if the plot wagon takes them to whatever terrain the DM prefers.</p>
<p>However, if the characters don&#8217;t have the DM jerking them around on a short leash (sadly, this is more often the case than not), they can get a lot of mileage out of specialized items. If they find a pair of Apparati of Kwalish, instead of cursing their luck for not finding a statboost item, they can start exploring shipwrecks for sunken treasure (maybe a statboost item or two), search for treasure or plot-relevant items in sunken ruins, or find all kinds of adventure on their own there.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny; the comic &#8220;Knights of the Dinner Table&#8221; is a lampoon of roleplaying games, but I always genuinely admired the style of the DM character; he generally let the players do as they please, parlaying the consequences of their actions into adventure rather than simply slapping them down and shoving them down a linear path. An excellent example is one storyline where, after hunting down a monk to interrogate and rob him, they found a minor artifact with the power to repair ships, sails and rigging. The player who ended up with it planned to sell it, but with some nudging by the DM upon reaching a port town, he realized he could parlay the artifact into a profitable enterprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-21579</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-21579</guid>
		<description>In all the game I have played we are always short of cash ( like in the real world) so when we discover a magical item we use it  or if it has charges we horde it for an emergency.  While stat increases are always useful they are not nessecary if the player thinks about the situation properly. You could alway talk your way out of a fight, hide from and encounter or lay the perfect ambush ( it is hard to dodge a mountain slide). Weapons and armour will always be the big one though because you cannot alway avoid conflict. So i would say that the sword has two edges and they both cut as well as the other. you just need to know when and how to use them. Thinking outside the box can and will save your life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In all the game I have played we are always short of cash ( like in the real world) so when we discover a magical item we use it  or if it has charges we horde it for an emergency.  While stat increases are always useful they are not nessecary if the player thinks about the situation properly. You could alway talk your way out of a fight, hide from and encounter or lay the perfect ambush ( it is hard to dodge a mountain slide). Weapons and armour will always be the big one though because you cannot alway avoid conflict. So i would say that the sword has two edges and they both cut as well as the other. you just need to know when and how to use them. Thinking outside the box can and will save your life.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-19155</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-19155</guid>
		<description>Has anyone run a game without having many of the Big Six?  I prefer to give my players interesting items, as long with the staple +armors / weapons, but avoiding the Cloaks of Resistance, Rings of More Resistance, and Amulet of Extra Resistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone run a game without having many of the Big Six?  I prefer to give my players interesting items, as long with the staple +armors / weapons, but avoiding the Cloaks of Resistance, Rings of More Resistance, and Amulet of Extra Resistance.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-18168</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 09:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-18168</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not really a fair question...that would be like saying &quot;would you rather have a car that uses no gas at all, but only on Sundays, or a car that uses 15% less gas every day?&quot; Obviously, the no gas on Sundays car is a Helm of Underwater Action, and the 15% lesse gas car is something standard like Gloves of Dex.

I think you have to almost consider stat/save items as different than &quot;other&quot; magic items. Gloves of Dex are just like a feat...pure statistical benefits that will almost ALWAYS be used in a session. Sure, they&#039;re always taken, but players also don&#039;t care about them. They&#039;re just tools. Where as a crazy helmet that can breathe underwater is not merely a tool, but becomes something unique and special on its own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not really a fair question&#8230;that would be like saying &#8220;would you rather have a car that uses no gas at all, but only on Sundays, or a car that uses 15% less gas every day?&#8221; Obviously, the no gas on Sundays car is a Helm of Underwater Action, and the 15% lesse gas car is something standard like Gloves of Dex.</p>
<p>I think you have to almost consider stat/save items as different than &#8220;other&#8221; magic items. Gloves of Dex are just like a feat&#8230;pure statistical benefits that will almost ALWAYS be used in a session. Sure, they&#8217;re always taken, but players also don&#8217;t care about them. They&#8217;re just tools. Where as a crazy helmet that can breathe underwater is not merely a tool, but becomes something unique and special on its own.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaratustra</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-18082</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaratustra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 08:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-18082</guid>
		<description>And when you -do- make the players go underwater they&#039;ll whine that you didn&#039;t warn them beforehand and you&#039;re a bad GM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And when you -do- make the players go underwater they&#8217;ll whine that you didn&#8217;t warn them beforehand and you&#8217;re a bad GM.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeroen</title>
		<link>http://www.d20source.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly/comment-page-1#comment-17295</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeroen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2007/07/big-six-magic-items-big-folly#comment-17295</guid>
		<description>Another reason might be the amount of use you get from these items. Better weapons, higher stats and higher saving throws are useful to almost everyone, because of the number of battles you face and other situations you find where they are useful.

On the other hand, a helm of underwater action is useful only when you need to go underwater - a rarer occasion in most campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another reason might be the amount of use you get from these items. Better weapons, higher stats and higher saving throws are useful to almost everyone, because of the number of battles you face and other situations you find where they are useful.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a helm of underwater action is useful only when you need to go underwater &#8211; a rarer occasion in most campaigns.</p>
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