Comments on: Vow of Poverty http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty A blog for all fans of Dungeons & Dragons. Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:00:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Steve http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-96511 Steve Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:59:38 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-96511 I used VoP with a SoulKnife/Illuminated Soul and found it quite stimulating. Sure you don't have all the magic items, but you don't need them as long as your psychic weapons work. I used VoP with a SoulKnife/Illuminated Soul and found it quite stimulating. Sure you don’t have all the magic items, but you don’t need them as long as your psychic weapons work.

]]> By: Mark http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-91917 Mark Wed, 09 Jun 2010 02:40:22 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-91917 1 thing I noticed, that everyone is forgetting, who said that VoP is too powerfull. Is thar you have to use up 2 feat slots to take Vow of poverty. Soo not only are you sacraficing magic items and such, but also using up 2 feat slots you could use elsewhere. Yes, it is best suited for the base monk and druid, but, this is a game ... just have fun with it Also, on a side note, I dont think you ever "NEED" to fly. Flyinf is nice, I will grant you that, but many times, I have not been able to fly. Just imptovise, or .. hitch a ride. 1 thing I noticed, that everyone is forgetting, who said that VoP is too powerfull. Is thar you have to use up 2 feat slots to take Vow of poverty. Soo not only are you sacraficing magic items and such, but also using up 2 feat slots you could use elsewhere. Yes, it is best suited for the base monk and druid, but, this is a game … just have fun with it

Also, on a side note, I dont think you ever “NEED” to fly. Flyinf is nice, I will grant you that, but many times, I have not been able to fly. Just imptovise, or .. hitch a ride.

]]> By: Anon http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-89788 Anon Tue, 04 May 2010 08:11:37 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-89788 Oh and again another add on, you can't borrow magical items per-say, you can use potions with let's say a cure serious wounds on it, but not a cloak of resistance or a wand of fire balls. Now about the spell book, the book it's self isn't intentionally magical but rather what you yourself do with it is, so it would classify as an item you would be able to technically own it just couldn't be masterwork otherwise that would in fact violate the terms, as the feat states that you are not allowed to have anything of any real value, so if the value comes from your own abilities is it realistically considered a violation of your vow as you are technically making this so, to be honest it would be up to your DM about such a thing and also as to what you were allowed to record spells on. Oh and again another add on, you can’t borrow magical items per-say, you can use potions with let’s say a cure serious wounds on it, but not a cloak of resistance or a wand of fire balls.
Now about the spell book, the book it’s self isn’t intentionally magical but rather what you yourself do with it is, so it would classify as an item you would be able to technically own it just couldn’t be masterwork otherwise that would in fact violate the terms, as the feat states that you are not allowed to have anything of any real value, so if the value comes from your own abilities is it realistically considered a violation of your vow as you are technically making this so, to be honest it would be up to your DM about such a thing and also as to what you were allowed to record spells on.

]]> By: Anon http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-89787 Anon Tue, 04 May 2010 08:01:17 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-89787 Oh and to add to my last comment. Vow of Mercy and non Violence are the feats that make it so you can't outright kill people, raging bloody war as a guy in rags is still very possible and even killing a surrendering enemy likewise if they have performed overly evil acts to promote such, again it comes down to the rp. Oh and to add to my last comment.
Vow of Mercy and non Violence are the feats that make it so you can’t outright kill people, raging bloody war as a guy in rags is still very possible and even killing a surrendering enemy likewise if they have performed overly evil acts to promote such, again it comes down to the rp.

]]> By: Anon http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-89786 Anon Tue, 04 May 2010 07:54:08 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-89786 Well to add to the monk thing or rather any class, rp will save you, mostly because it states that you are not allowed to "own" however a character buying an item for you and still laying claim to said item and allowing you the use isn't technically a violation of the feat as you do not actually own the item but are allowed to keep it in your possession simply because you are borrowing it. Wizards with spell books, more rp do favors for the church you're character follows and ask only that you receive a spell book on lend. Now about combat, as a monk there are feats in other books that allow them to project their unarmed attacks from a ranged, one example of such is ringing the golden bell from the dragon compendium 1, I believe, which allows the monk to do so once per-day, however I believe, in the phb2 it gives a variant monk which can do this pretty much every round anyway, so in a nutshell you turn your monk in a poverty based Goku and kamehameha win the day against the flying foe. Well to add to the monk thing or rather any class, rp will save you, mostly because it states that you are not allowed to “own” however a character buying an item for you and still laying claim to said item and allowing you the use isn’t technically a violation of the feat as you do not actually own the item but are allowed to keep it in your possession simply because you are borrowing it.
Wizards with spell books, more rp do favors for the church you’re character follows and ask only that you receive a spell book on lend.
Now about combat, as a monk there are feats in other books that allow them to project their unarmed attacks from a ranged, one example of such is ringing the golden bell from the dragon compendium 1, I believe, which allows the monk to do so once per-day, however I believe, in the phb2 it gives a variant monk which can do this pretty much every round anyway, so in a nutshell you turn your monk in a poverty based Goku and kamehameha win the day against the flying foe.

]]> By: Omar http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-85595 Omar Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:26:38 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-85595 Hi, sorry for the minor thread Necromancy here, but this is a response to the 3 year old post on VoP Monks being beaten by a Manticore. First, CR 5, so lets assume 5th level. You have an AC of say 20. Total defensive action for at least 3 rounds brings that to 24 (average 23). (Wis+Dex+VoP+Monk bonuses). You have deflect arrows. A Manticore has 24 shots at you. You ignore 4. That's 20 +8 attacks remaining. The Manticore hits on a 15+, so that suggests, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. 2 possible crits accounted for. Total damage: 6.5*6 + 6.5*0.3*2 = 43 The average Monk would have: 38hp. He is still alive, but needs to be stabilized. The Manticore can no longer do anything except come down to attack. Now, what are the other 3 players doing? The manticore deals approx 9 damage per turn. The remaining party should deal 18 damage per turn. They will kill it in 3 turns. Assuming a party of ALL VoP monks, the Manticore is now either going to fly away, or lose. Thus a CR 5 Manticore, hand picked to be as inconvenient to the party as possible, has succeeded in costing a level 5 party little over 1/4 of their resources. This is the exact definition of a CR5 monster. (P.S. Slings? Crossbows? Cover? Why can't we use them exactly? What exactly was the Monk going to do at level 5 anyway with any reasonable Wealth by Level that has been removed by VoP?) Sure, in a beating your head against it scenario, 1 on 1, where you're basically pitting quadruple the expected amount of Monster on a single character in the most inconvenient way possible, he will lose. Why are we in this scenario? Why not use your in class hide skill for example? The game contributes the rules, you contribute the thinking. Not vice versa. Hi, sorry for the minor thread Necromancy here, but this is a response to the 3 year old post on VoP Monks being beaten by a Manticore.

First, CR 5, so lets assume 5th level.

You have an AC of say 20. Total defensive action for at least 3 rounds brings that to 24 (average 23). (Wis+Dex+VoP+Monk bonuses). You have deflect arrows.

A Manticore has 24 shots at you.
You ignore 4.

That’s 20 +8 attacks remaining. The Manticore hits on a 15+, so that suggests, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. 2 possible crits accounted for.

Total damage: 6.5*6 + 6.5*0.3*2 = 43

The average Monk would have: 38hp. He is still alive, but needs to be stabilized. The Manticore can no longer do anything except come down to attack.

Now, what are the other 3 players doing?

The manticore deals approx 9 damage per turn. The remaining party should deal 18 damage per turn. They will kill it in 3 turns.

Assuming a party of ALL VoP monks, the Manticore is now either going to fly away, or lose. Thus a CR 5 Manticore, hand picked to be as inconvenient to the party as possible, has succeeded in costing a level 5 party little over 1/4 of their resources.

This is the exact definition of a CR5 monster.

(P.S. Slings? Crossbows? Cover? Why can’t we use them exactly? What exactly was the Monk going to do at level 5 anyway with any reasonable Wealth by Level that has been removed by VoP?)

Sure, in a beating your head against it scenario, 1 on 1, where you’re basically pitting quadruple the expected amount of Monster on a single character in the most inconvenient way possible, he will lose. Why are we in this scenario? Why not use your in class hide skill for example?

The game contributes the rules, you contribute the thinking. Not vice versa.

]]> By: Aryl http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-81205 Aryl Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:30:35 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-81205 Chuck, just thought I would comment. You posted about Dragon_Child's not being able to fly comment. (S)He did comment "But you have no ranged attacks, and no ability to fly on your own, ever" So, he was saying what about the times you are alone? Because in every campaign I've ever played in, I ended up alone fairly often, whether it be because we had gotten split up, or because we were ambushed while shopping at the market or whatever. Lhurgyof: As for the line "If you need to know, without magic items, his unarmed strikes are considered: Magic, Lawful, Adamantine, Epic, Silt-Bane, Keen, Vorpal, Dehydrating, Exhausting, Blinding, Confusing, Wounding, Axiomatic, Unholy, Good, AND +20." This is possible, (I assume you're a Lawful Neutral Character) but I doubt that everybody would want to go with the same 60 levels you did, making it still highly unlikely. If I want to make something linear and just like the thing before me, I'll play a video game. I want to play something with more options. So you may have proved it possible, but I think the OP was intending to give a helpful guide to what was favorable. Chuck, just thought I would comment. You posted about Dragon_Child’s not being able to fly comment. (S)He did comment “But you have no ranged attacks, and no ability to fly on your own, ever” So, he was saying what about the times you are alone? Because in every campaign I’ve ever played in, I ended up alone fairly often, whether it be because we had gotten split up, or because we were ambushed while shopping at the market or whatever.

Lhurgyof: As for the line “If you need to know, without magic items, his unarmed strikes are considered: Magic, Lawful, Adamantine, Epic, Silt-Bane, Keen, Vorpal, Dehydrating, Exhausting, Blinding, Confusing, Wounding, Axiomatic, Unholy, Good, AND +20.” This is possible, (I assume you’re a Lawful Neutral Character) but I doubt that everybody would want to go with the same 60 levels you did, making it still highly unlikely. If I want to make something linear and just like the thing before me, I’ll play a video game. I want to play something with more options. So you may have proved it possible, but I think the OP was intending to give a helpful guide to what was favorable.

]]> By: Chuck http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-79291 Chuck Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:26:32 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-79291 Lhurgyof: Using a level 60 character as a defense for a build is ridiculous. Especially when you use a custom, ridiculous prestige. Dragon_Child: You're also not taking into account the fact that most characters travel in A PARTY. You don't always have to make YOURSELF fly. No ranged attacks? Seriously? Think. Lhurgyof: Using a level 60 character as a defense for a build is ridiculous. Especially when you use a custom, ridiculous prestige.

Dragon_Child: You’re also not taking into account the fact that most characters travel in A PARTY. You don’t always have to make YOURSELF fly. No ranged attacks? Seriously? Think.

]]> By: Kevin http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-79159 Kevin Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:31:30 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-79159 This was an amazing post and really opened my eyes to a lot. I have not looked at TBoED very much at all until now. I had a week long back and forth conversation with a fellow player about how it is not possible to have character who is NOT equipment dependent. I thought it was possible and have set my mind in that direction. We just started a game, still first level playing together and little does he know this is the character I am going to test my theory out on. And now I think I am also going to test VoP out on this character too and see how it works. The DM started us as non-heroic classes but next game we should gain out first real level and I have about a week to decide what class to play. Thanks for the great post and to everyone for the great comments too. This was an amazing post and really opened my eyes to a lot. I have not looked at TBoED very much at all until now.

I had a week long back and forth conversation with a fellow player about how it is not possible to have character who is NOT equipment dependent.

I thought it was possible and have set my mind in that direction. We just started a game, still first level playing together and little does he know this is the character I am going to test my theory out on. And now I think I am also going to test VoP out on this character too and see how it works.

The DM started us as non-heroic classes but next game we should gain out first real level and I have about a week to decide what class to play.

Thanks for the great post and to everyone for the great comments too.

]]> By: J Newbury http://www.d20source.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty/comment-page-1#comment-77802 J Newbury Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:40:27 +0000 http://d20.jonnydigital.com/2006/12/vow-of-poverty#comment-77802 After making that last post, I re-read the feat desrciption in BoED. I was mistaken. VoP's description doesn't address what happens if it is broken against the character's will or accidentally, though several other Vow of _______ feats do, which is where I think I got the idea in my head. VoP seems to be all or nothing; no atonement is possible. After making that last post, I re-read the feat desrciption in BoED. I was mistaken. VoP’s description doesn’t address what happens if it is broken against the character’s will or accidentally, though several other Vow of _______ feats do, which is where I think I got the idea in my head. VoP seems to be all or nothing; no atonement is possible.

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